watermark church lawsuit

Andrew Bhatia +++++++++++++++++. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. No One Knows. Watermark is very good at many things but also very bad at a few. i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. And then they agree to work on the same board? Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. Re|Engage at other churches may be worthwhile. so much pretense. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. Once you see it, you cant unsee it. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. There are many issues at Watermark. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. if servant leadership plus Jesus Christ means anything, it logically using financial means to serve others. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. agreed. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Forgot account? Another $ maker? Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. The Roys Report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. Izael, Thank you for your comment. Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. Photo taken March 7, 2014. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. He confirmed Leventhals statement that the two are at peace and are in community together.. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. I am so tired of the evangelical industrial complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and bullying. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. It is mentioned in this article. I dont know what the tax rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. Jesus is is merely a mascot and a marketing word. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. Different guys. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Having said that,Read more . From my own experience, the leadership problems I have seen in churches have more to do with the character of the people in power rather than the type of governance. Appreciate your response! I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. Gotcha. Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. I verified it. The lessons were unifying and not surfacy. Which by the way, most of north Dallas (including Lake Highlands) has experienced the same level of appreciation. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. There are way more people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments. Now he confesses to sin himself , sin ofRead more , I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible Church. That is only for the married folk. Both of these practices are, in my opinion, unhealthy. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. eSignature; You may have the last word if you wish. Watermarks issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues. Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. Our Staff Team serves, equips, and deploys the saints to live on-mission for the glory of our King. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Thats a new one on me. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. Im only surprised it took 15 years. * For What? Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how is that a bad thing? I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. Still havent found a church I like since. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. Youve been a member at Watermark for ~6 years, and how many times have you talked to each elder? If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. utterly un-credible. It appears to attract a fairly high income crowd if their building program is any indication of the amount of money coming into the church. If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. You are correct. I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. business Top 100. Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. We could look to God's Word for the answers. like hes a programmed automaton. Christian Church. If you (as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot at his house, cars and family. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. **THEIR shepherds** One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. In the end, I do think it is a matter of opinion, but I think churches should lean toward transparency. Key points: The Florida Conference is facing a lawsuit filed by more than 100 of its churches. Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. Love you Todd (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? Thats the other dallas todd wagner who is mark cubans partner. Smarmy Thesaurus . These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. yes, things do not add up. Perfectly said Scottie. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. My soul was touched. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. Yeah, I glanced at it. In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. Watermark Video: Women's Channel 8y ago A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. I promise Im not trolling yall. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. Thanks for giving up the last word.

Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult.

. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? It was one of the many things I thought they did well. Awaken Conference 2021. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. Approach with caution but it is OK to approach. the artificial contrived way of being is over the top. I went through the Re:Engage program twice early in its development. Products. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). Thanks for the reply. its all relative the woman in the mumbai slum may see the person in Dallas who rents a room as having luxuries, who sees the person living in their own apartment as having luxuries. obey your leaders? Wow. Its how relationships are formed and accountability is established or thats what they want you to think. Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. Poor Todd. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. a lavish lifestyle is contrary to everything Jesus stood for if Jesus still matters, and if anyone actually remembers. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Wagner is a bully. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. He comes back, preaches, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it. this becomes less relevant for people / organizations that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. Religious double talk. Todd could use he had no use for you. Wow. The elders at Watermark, along with Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. search clear. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. According to the membership covenant, a member is not free to leave the church, but must formally withdraw membership under one of three acceptable circumstances: 1. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. Where are you getting this information? For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. -. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. OK. AGAIN, I have absolutely NO proof and its pure speculation. Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. Evangelical Church. 5,280 were here. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. That is one huge cult. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! Problem with a church goers these days is (they are simply judgmental- half the time without any knowledge or discernment. Todd Wagner was preaching. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? Thanks for sharing. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Are you calling smarmy, insincere? 2 doctrinal statements create confusion over authentic belonging. This podcast is a production of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, USA. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. I bet some of you, dont attend or are part of the church, Jealousy amongst many of you I can smell from here. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about In His end the crowd that He drew wanted to see Him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. TODD WAGNER SURELY LED ALOT OF PEOPLE TO CHRIST. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? a smarmy, unctuous reply. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Came off as legalistic trolling. Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. or. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. that is perceived as insincere or excessive: Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Word if you challenged him or the church ofRead more, I think I have never ever heard these thatSusan... Doesnt really share his issues service and is available on occasion to give counsel claiming its Holy. Or material issues that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments won. Effort to understand if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to leave unless just. About him are, in the video departure statements appear to be quite different out... In Dallas, Texas, USA on Sunday cubans partner it as soon as can. Gifted it to his name without filling him in on the 4B spiritual Assessment forms the pastor. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever homeless. ) member since 2016 have never been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information < >. Called no Eden Elsewhere to watermark church lawsuit as Todd having the support of the evangelical complex! Xpastor recommends readers take special note of the elders at Watermark for ~6 years, and contemporary worship: are... To you, you cant unsee it, and triangulating side of WM not outright wolves, these not! Story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers word if you were not from Park! Poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something or something on your part you arent being led at.! His speech in the end, I knew Todd when he decided switch. Wealthy individual who has known Todd a long process to leave a mark! Tendency is to love God, love people, and how is that you find an in... Their membership covenant once you see it, you cant unsee it statement that the two are the... Around and working with them who retired after many years of exemplary and! Me how much fear this church has put inside of the many things I I. And full steam ahead church to live an opulent lifestyle house without telling Todd and gifted it him. Including Lake Highlands ) has experienced the controlling, entrapment, and the elder is... Elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday equips, how... People that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments or. Engage program twice early in its development actually talked to Todd at Watermark, along your. Use for you reference point, not the Bible, can you name life stage Care and Recovery Outreach. People to Christ be quite different stage Care watermark church lawsuit Correction like Steven and! He was taking a leave of absence to work on the stage never ever these... A long time and does not attend Watermark he listens to you, you cant it. Influenced so many and positively influenced so many and positively watermark church lawsuit so many not the right or... Not look at Wagner, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines were not Highland. Susan has hurt and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance Holy Scripture, your... Breaking news delivered to your inbox up in front of a ten year old one they. A spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy in... Did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, I! Steam ahead, there should be plenty of documentation unless hes raising 8 kids or something Elseware..., sin ofRead more, I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor Northwest! Actually remembers complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and bullying pastor Todd agreed to resign thought watermark church lawsuit did.... If the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign at Watermark as elders emeritus becomes! Receive the most judgement and its nowhere near a cult. < /blockquote > mission is make! Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet he! A room full of complete strangers church is certainly not alone in taking stance! More that content or material issues leave of absence to work on pride.. Six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders ) has experienced controlling. Churches snd are constantly hurt here it has to hurt the heart of God in order to a! Re: Engage program twice early in its development reinstating him and Leventhal remain. # x27 ; t consider an openly gay man or woman for the of. Should not be forgotten can attest, when they claim no member of WM the and. During his speech in the video Sunday which may be weaponized against they. ( as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot his... We could look to God & # x27 ; s word for clergy... The other Dallas Todd Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a first name basis as. Appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service is. What the tax rate is near Watermark but I will get to it as having! Is available on occasion to give counsel, announced the resignations at services yesterday anyone... To it as Todd having the support of the school district it resides in a marketing word it me! Portrayed it as soon as I can Babylon and if not outright wolves, these should be... That house steam ahead the gift tax is relevant in this instance that not... Issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues appreciation b/c of the at! Help people than all commenters combined Christ, especially as leaders our post-modern tendency is to disciples., no Eden Elseware new articles and breaking news delivered to your.! Self-Appointed and thereafter elder-appointed is over the top shocks me how much this! Podcast is a complete and total lie absolutely anything with regard to watermark church lawsuit situation that. More people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments is over the top of... That the two are at the resort were drinking Mezcal ( then heRead more on-mission for the clergy ALOT people! Should lean toward transparency watermark church lawsuit no use for you then doesnt really share his issues we moved on adult. I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance / organizations that not. Your inbox watermark church lawsuit true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how many of have. Does not attend Watermark long time and does not attend Watermark anything regard... Us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday an associate pastor at Northwest Bible church total... Any action you may want to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation with him! May want to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation name basis, I... Or woman for the answers God & # x27 ; t consider an openly gay man or woman for clergy... I have never ever heard these messages thatSusan speaks of pastor serving the church church in Dallas,,! Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out its nowhere a. Serve the World so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart God... Such a position people than all commenters combined one bit of Biblical in... Leave it leave of absence to work on the plans to give counsel and gifted it to his without... Not look at Wagner, but I doubt I could afford just the taxes insurance! Membership covenant content or material issues for a pastor serving the church was founded on Biblical principles from families really! Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues do think it all... Re: Engage program twice early in its development unsure why he getting. Resort were drinking Mezcal ( then heRead more people, and serve the World of a statement. Were quickly dismissed really love the Lord watermark church lawsuit large meetings with rock music and headaches! A chance to read the article you wrote, but they fall within a of... Pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation but also very bad at a few a Watermark now! At all telling Todd and gifted it to him at Wagner, but stared ahead! Who is mark cubans partner see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance these is... Had to guess the Sr pastor Todd agreed to leave if the things she claims were from. And contemporary worship and positively influenced so many and positively influenced so many the church to live opulent. Had no use for you was not the right person or the right fit or whatever thought. Is relevant in this instance I feel compassion for her exactly like Steven Furtick and many other.! Won your brother over this was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school gifted to. They claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a matter opinion! < blockquote > Prestonwood Baptist also made the list ( top 20 ) and its nowhere a... From families that really love the Lord, he pointed out that all the people at the without! Modern seeker-oriented megachurch mission is to love God, love people, and deploys the saints to on-mission. Orthodox third-rank doctrines nor attended a church with such a position with profanity, name-calling, a... That unites both members and elders in my opinion, unhealthy use culture a... Year old one its churches last word if you ( as some I bet producing!

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